Total Armor Rebalance

Discussion in 'Suggestions Hub' started by Aleuvian, Aug 5, 2017.

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Would you support this rebalance?

Poll closed Yesterday at 4:23 AM.
  1. Yes

    55.6%
  2. No

    44.4%
  1. Aleuvian

    Aleuvian User

    The Enclave
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    Hello everyone, this is going to be my first suggestion to the NVMP since joining, so I hope I can make this seem as favorable as possible, since I can preemptively see a large amount of players shooting this down instantly, however I would like for everyone to hear out this idea regardless, as I truly believe it can help balance out PvP AND new player faction choice dramatically.

    So, if you have been on the Discord lately, I have been floating around this idea a few times to see how you guys would react, and I suppose it is time I create a thread to gauge your reactions.

    I am proposing a total rebalance of all armors to make armor a more cosmetic choice, rather than a major factor in what you wear or what faction you choose. (I will detail the reasons why this is later on)

    My example of this would be to divide all armors into their weight classes, respectively, and assign a UNIVERSAL DT based on the class of armor, so for example;

    LIGHT - 10 DT
    MEDIUM - 15 DT
    HEAVY - 20 DT
    POWER - 22 DT (Can just be made the same as Heavy, but it does have it's own intrinsic subcategory of Heavy types, so I am labelling this differently for now. Can easily be removed or modified though.)

    Keep in mind that these DT numbers are purely examples, and I would probably base them around the MOST powerful item in their category. These numbers are completely arbitrary, however I would like to see a difference in DT between the weight classes just to maintain at least some realism.

    How does this effect faction choice, though?

    As some of you know, players have been choosing smaller factions that have less item restrictions over the larger, lore-based factions so that they can wear and use the most powerful gear in the game. Balancing all of the gear equally will make it so that players aren't punished as heavily for using their faction gear.


    What are the potential drawbacks of this?

    Of course, this has it's benefits such as balancing out factions, armor, and etc., but what are the drawbacks?

    1. Some clothing will have unrealistic scaling, such as normal clothing being as powerful as logically stronger variants.
    2. S.P.E.C.I.A.L. modifiers are not factored in, and can play a role in choice and combat preference.
    3. This can actually make some armors less desirable for not modifying S.P.E.C.I.A.L. stats.
    4. Armor cost, difficulty of acquisition, and etc. are not scaled to this list, obviously.
    5. Other modifiers to armor, such as player speed effects, are also not factored in.
    6. Removes the need for armor scavenging through potential overbalancing. (Credit to Tycho)
    If you have any other drawbacks that you would like to point out, I will add them to this list, as I am believer of giving players the good and the bad.


    Why are you proposing this?

    My main goal in proposing this is to, hopefully, get the community working together and discussing ways to balance PvP in an easy way through modifying the stats of items in-game to be more multiplayer friendly. Simple stat modification like this is easily possible through the GECK and can be done quite quickly by Jak or other experienced users of the GECK, and can also be reverted just as easily. I am primarily looking for a temporary, and expedient fix to get the mod in a somewhat enjoyable state so we have a chance at retaining a long-term playerbase to see the game through to completion, as at it's current pace the mod simply will not be done before most of us lose interest. It would be a shame to see a cool project like this die out like so many others because it took too long and didn't have enough for the players to do early on.

    So, hopefully, even if you guys dislike this idea; we can stay on the topic of balancing to try and make the current state of the mod as enjoyable for everyone!
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2017
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  2. FalloutIlluminati

    FalloutIlluminati New User

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    Koolclave PA pls Jak
    (All jokes aside, this would probably be ideal for everyone as it would completely give everyone a fighting chance against eachother and allow for a more fair and fun experience for new or returning NVMP players, oh, and allow the Enclave to be allowed their bloody Power Armour!)
     
  3. Aleuvian

    Aleuvian User

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    (!) ATTENTION (!)

    Please post any and all feedback you have so I can improve and keep this topic somewhat alive! I want to try and get the community in a state of open discussion regarding multiplayer balance, and I truly hope that this can be the first step in that direction.

    Any positive or negative feedback you have to help improve and balance gameplay for all players, old and new is both welcome and appreciated! Thank you!
     
  4. AC_GLINT

    AC_GLINT User

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    Sounds good, makes it feel less restrictive on what people want to wear without sacrificing DT for looks than something else in the same category.
     
  5. Tycho

    Tycho

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    Yeah. We should also make each weapon do the same damage based on their categories too. Hell, why not just get rid of DT all together for balancing reasons?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  6. Aleuvian

    Aleuvian User

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    Weapon balancing is a much more complicated, and an entirely different matter entirely. Considering the game has literally nothing BESIDES PvP this is, in my mind, the best option for balancing combat all around. I have an idea for proposing a rebalance of weapons, but that depends on a lot more variables than the armor has, and as such would take a lot longer to create something truly presentable to the community.

    If you have any constructive criticism, or would actually like to contribute to the discussion of balancing, feel free. I would appreciate it greatly, however if you have nothing to contribute then your comments serve no purpose here.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Tycho

    Tycho

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    No, because it removes any need to scavenge armor when you could just head on down to Hidden Valley and get the best armor in the game. This won't balance the game. This will just make the mod a bigger shitfest than it already is.
     
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  8. Aleuvian

    Aleuvian User

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    That is what people do currently, though? I will add that to the list of negatives, but I am not sure what you mean considering that there isn't any real scavenging. Balancing the armor will make it so that there is no intrinsic best armor per category, and you aren't punished as much for using light armor or not using power armor.

    So, through this method, it eliminates the need for people to beeline to HV for power armor and eliminates the need to join small factions that don't restrict your armor to stand a chance against other players.

    As far I have been aware, new players have literally always rushed HV just because it is the only way to stand a chance at getting past other players to get the T-51 or Combat Armor Mk. II.
     
  9. Darius

    Darius

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    Caesar previously asked for this, it was denied. He asked for it due to the fact he was worried BoS, The Enclave and other PA Factions would rape CL. As they likely would, and are.
     
  10. Aleuvian

    Aleuvian User

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    His proposal was to have all armors have absolutely no DT whatsoever, which removes the purpose of the armor entirely, though. I am trying to get a happy medium to ensure that faction and non-faction armors aren't inherently worse / better than one another and, hopefully, their own intrinsic benefits would counteract the downsides of having a universal class DT.
     
  11. Darius

    Darius

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    You're changing the DT on a handful of Armors by 2-4 points and making it out to be some grand change. It doesn't matter, people will still loot HV for PA, they'll even come to the Remnants Bunker when and if Cezzarios patch is approved. If you want this shit to be balanced we need lockable base doors, trading and a whole bunch of other shit that would make this problem redundant. But it's highly unlikely to ever happen.
     
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  12. Aleuvian

    Aleuvian User

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    65 Clothing items will be raised from 0 or 1 DT to 10 DT
    39 Light Armors will be raised or lowered to 10 DT, respectively. A large number of those being buffed.
    13 Medium Armors will be raised or lowered to 15 DT, the majority being NCR armors that are raised from 10 DT.
    3 Heavy Armors will be raised to 20 DT, none will be lowered.
    2 Power Armors will be lowered to 22 DT and 1 will be raised.
     
  13. Aleuvian

    Aleuvian User

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    Unless for some reason the entire community decides that clothing should remain absolutely worthless in multiplayer, I would suppose the DT for that would be raised as well.

    This is also not factoring in any form of headgear.
     
  14. BigTimeTripod

    BigTimeTripod

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    I say remove the DT system and somehow port it FO3 DR system. Would make the game a bit more deadlier and a newbie with a 9mm could even damage you when wearing PA. Also explosives stop being so OP also with DR since DR acts like a % off damage, instead of DT damage - DT = lost health.

    Since NV is based on FO3 and most assets are in, the DR code should also be, heck there are even 2 items that use DR in NV so should be as easy as changing values.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
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  15. ArtificialExistence

    ArtificialExistence User

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    Meh, I think it would change the game too much. I know you could always just play vanilla but I feel like it cuts a big part of the game out. Searching for something specific.
     
  16. Aleuvian

    Aleuvian User

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    A complete change from the DT to DR could require a lot more code on Jak's end. I am just proposing this as a quick, temporary system to balance combat; as most of us can agree that PvP is one of the primary things to do.

    EDIT: After researching this, I have discovered that DT for all gear can just be made 0 and DR values can be assigned to all gear. I will also write up a full list of items in another thread to see how if this is a more popular method.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2017
  17. BigTimeTripod

    BigTimeTripod

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    Yeah, changing from DT to DR should be as simple as editing sinple values already coded in, but as im not a coding expert, i cannot say for sure.
     
  18. Elder Raynor

    Elder Raynor

    Patreon Supporter Beta Tester Brotherhood of Steel
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    I can only see armor being a problem in pvp if every first level fucker can get end-game armor after a 5 minute run from game start. Pvp, in the protective aspect is broken because everyone can have PA when it should be something unusual even for factions capable of building them. If you want to fix that issue bring back power armor training requirements
     
  19. Caesar

    Caesar

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    josh had the idea of faction keys, so certain places being locked off, e.g BOS bunker accessible to BOS members only, People having to kill me for the platnium chip to access the fort's bunker and so on
     
  20. Eetterinakki

    Eetterinakki Well-Known User

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    Key idea is good - lock each base's front door and add the key to said faction's starter kit.

    Armors can't be rebalanced if you don't also rebalance their weight which would lessen the amount of builds because now you couldn't pick slightly less DT for a bit more carry weight. Also the proposal to add 10DT to clothing items is just insane. The real problem with PVP is the fact that stimpaks heal instantly, and anything that's not a instant kill is virtually useless since players remain invulnerable for as long as they have stimpaks - fights are decided by who runs out of them first, which encourages item farming, not skillful play.

    Adding Hardcore mode as it is would fix this, and in case people don't want the hunger, thirst etc, that whole mechanic is just made up by 3 values, hunger, thirst and sleep values generated in a certain time - set those 3 values to 0 and effectively you have Hardcore Mode without survival mechanics.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
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