Mojave Convention Summit: Bull's Adjudication

Discussion in 'Factions & Alliances' started by The Nak, Jan 10, 2017.

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  1. The Nak

    The Nak

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    This Summit will be held here publicly, but do not post unless you are a signer of the Anti-Espionage Act or are upholding it. This is not the place to weigh in your opinion of the act itself, it's a hearing of sorts to handle the break of the act by a signer.


    All of the proof is recorded or captured with Gyazo which does a fine job of listing times and what is being captured to prevent tampering.

    While this only shows Caesar discussing briefly his intent to break the treaty, as well as Vulpes, it's been determined that no substantial counter proof can be offered to fight the claim that this plan was completed and they discussed the information in private.

    Summary

    I spoke with Caesar about this extensively, and have spoken briefly with a few others that are signers of the Convention. Both Vulpes and Caesar are under review for breaking the treaty.

    Caesar had not revoked his signature till after this break was both committed and revealed.

    The consensus so far is that he did in fact break the agreement. In discussing it with him, he claimed several times as well as other things that he did not think this was a break and that the agreement was not clear enough, but upon me pressing the matter with him, he revealed that he did not read the treaty before signing it, and signed it as a show of good faith. This does not void his signature as he is responsible for reading before signing.

    The treaty states that breakers of the treaty are expected to step down and accept exile from their faction as well as the other signing factions. The proof was brought to me by a user that was part of the Legion-not a spy or alt account. He accepted his fate in revealing his identity and was banished from the Legion for providing this evidence.

    Verdict

    As Caesar has removed his signature, Vulpes leaves his standing but is also punished by this verdict, and the remaining Lucius stated that in so many words his loyalty to Caesar stands higher than his loyalty to the treaty-we are left with little options in enforcing the exile internally through the other leaders.

    However, I think that push has come to shove, if the Legion, and members like Scar who were banished by Caesar, agree-then it's time for them to speak. Caesar may be the current leader, and have the namesake of the Legion's canon Emperor, but that does not mean there's no Legion without him. If you believe that Caesar should have upheld this treaty, and you disagree with him avoiding punishment by revoking his signature, make yourself heard to the rest of the Legion. This shouldn't be about a power grab, but it's clear that not every Legion member is allowed to be represented under Caesar's reign.

    Conclusion

    I have no problems with Caesar's work, he makes a lot of positive effort for his faction, but this is not the first time Caesar has acted in a way that a faction leader shouldn't. Even Caesar's Legion which is canonically a dictatorship does not have the right to be run in a fashion that alienates it's members for speaking up like this. Not everything has to be done in character, and as a leader of a faction Caesar should be applauding his members for their dedication to a treaty he himself signed.

    With all of that said, I end on this note: If you are a Legion Member, it now falls into your hands to decide your leadership. The Official Faction of Caesar's Legion is not concrete, and he does not have to remain it's leader if you feel it's time to change.

    This is not a thing of spite, it's simply a call for an end to this type of behavior.
     
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  2. Memer

    Memer

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    Once again, its always nice to have you take initiative.
    And also, Caesar has had ups and downs but this is quite a tad too drastic. Its a heavy blow for NCR, but even more, it has shaken the trust settling in the recent treaty. I feel Caesar should own up and right this, or face the consequences
     
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  3. Harambe

    Harambe

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    If he can't handle the responsibility or face the consequences he shouldn't have signed it in the first place
     
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  4. Caesar

    Caesar

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    Harambe, I revoked because blaze was still monitoring our chats with freelance spies and getting screenshots, am i supposed to fucking sit here and let them, if you think i'm bowing them and resigning you are wrong, you are not in charge of me, I do not care. I've come too far and if it wasn't me leading the legion it wouldn't be this successful, lets be honest, if i hadn't taken up the helms while no one else had it wouldn't be 100+ today.

    I don't give a crap about your 'treaty' if you aren't going to allow us to defend ourselves from non-members spying
     
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  5. Caesar

    Caesar

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    Nak, i had no intention of upholding the treaty if blaze was not going to sign, this was about becoming better as a person. If he signs, i'll sign, but i'm not just going to sit here while he is allowed to keep spying on us, think of this logically everyone, EVERYONE. Am I supposed to sit here and let him use freelance spies to get information/screenshots? Am i? Would you strike back too? 1. Blaze does not own up to these activities so his vice president can't report him for breaking the treaty as memer has signed it. 2. I think signing could of been a bad idea if you think you can have the power to force someone to step down. I will never step down.
     
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  6. Caesar

    Caesar

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    Oh grow up harambe with your political correctness and dislikes, you wouldn't like it if i kept spying on you while you had signed the treaty and you couldn't do anything about it because you signed. How about I slap a slave collar on you and see if i can break that liberal PC crap.
     
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  7. Caesar

    Caesar

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    Also did no one read? " Oh yeah you have to leave their discord by the way, we signed the treaty " Then he made one point and all I say is True, I agreed with a point he made, the treaty isn't very specific ok? But I have not accepted intel off him.
     
  8. Harambe

    Harambe

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    Let the hate flow through you, immature child.
     
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  9. kenji_flash

    kenji_flash

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    Caesars single hit him up b ;)
     
  10. Stampede

    Stampede Recognised User | Level 1

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    True to Caesar, in Caesar i serve, to Caesar i am loyal!
     
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  11. edwardg

    edwardg

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    True to Caesar, in Caesar I serve, in Caesar I am loyal!
    Also your definition of spying is a little loose, don't you think?
     
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  12. Caesar

    Caesar

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    Also, I want nothing to do with this treaty anymore, after this hostile act to try taking down our leadership, I won't be signing. Ever, not even if Hillary clinton paid me to , Heh
     
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  13. Sp00kMaster

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    True to Caesar, in Caesar I serve, I am loyal!
     
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  14. Harambe

    Harambe

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    Lol I'm pretty sure he already linked this thread on his discord server so they back him up.
     
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  15. Alexander Resenki

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    Hold on, if I am correct, The Treaty says that there is no Spies, however it says nothing about Defectors. Therefor making this argument invalid, as I left the NCR after being betrayed by them. I know some half-ass NCR dude is gonna attack me for saying that, but what ever.
     
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  16. Lucius

    Lucius

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    We Me and fellow leaders have taken months of our time and devoted into making a faction and we have made a rather successful faction, We signed the treaty in good faith hoping the other factions would do the same and follow it the same as us but apon finding spies in OUR discord decided something needed to be done. Caesar and Vulpes unsigned while I left mine in the hope we could continue to follow it and that the other factions would do the same. That being said the "proof" of us using spies is irrelevant and shows nothing of us having spies or collecting information from them which we have not done.
     
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  17. Alexander Resenki

    Alexander Resenki User

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    We cannot follow the treaty if other people are not following it, it's as simple as that...
     
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  18. Lucius

    Lucius

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    Do I need to mention the fact that whoever recorded that "proof" is a spy themselves. Who is this individual?
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
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  19. Alexander Resenki

    Alexander Resenki User

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    Good point, the Treaty is already breaking its own rules by using spies. Another reason not to sign if you are gonna be spied on by the no-spying deal lol.
     
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  20. LilBasio

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    True to Caesar, in Caesar I serve, in Caesar I am loyal
     
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